With Election Day just a few weeks away, longtime church members Lucky Hartunian and Janie Booth sat outside the Revival Christian Fellowship’s sanctuary in Menifee, California, inviting congregants to register to vote.
The women urged those streaming into the evangelical church’s Saturday morning civic engagement event to “make their voices heard as Christians.” After mail-in ballots go out statewide, Booth and Hartunian will be among church volunteers collecting completed, sealed ballots and dropping them off at the county office the next day.
It’s a practice known as ballot gathering - or ballot harvesting — that’s been a source of national controversy over the years.
Robert Tyler, a California-based attorney who represents conservative churches and pastors, said he still believes “ballot harvesting and universal vote by mail creates opportunities for fraud.”
“But the rules of the game have changed,” he said. “Until the law changes, we have to get out and gather ballots like they are doing.”
We really need to start taking away tax exemption for churches that pull political stunts. Want to break the agreement? Fine, be as fiscally bankrupt as you are morally.
We really need to start taking away tax exemption for churches
that pull political stunts.Fixed.
I’ve said it before I’ll say it again, churches shouldn’t automatically be tax exempt, if they want tax exempt status they should have to register as a 501c3 or similar like any other organization and follow the same rules. Automatically qualifying for tax exempt status allows them to get away with so much shit.
Churches are tax exempt for 2 reasons. Neither of which are being fulfilled today.
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They are supposed to remain apolitical. I’ve read dozens of accounts of people lamenting the loss of the ONE place they had that was about just how to exist and the joy of being and outside political maneuvering. Even tho I don’t attend a service I can be sympathic to their loss.
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Churches are supposed to provide for the poor, shit, this is even the main narrative used to reject any government services/welfare. Yo, there’s more poor people now then I’ve ever seen in my entire life, wtf are these churches doing?
For context; christianity’s foundation are in the teachings of Jesus, the Torah and what the ancient Israelites yoinked from Zarathustra (like the concept of Satan). What does Jesus teach? Tolerance, forgiveness, charity, acts without passing judgement and without expecting payment, love thy neighbor like thy love thineself, treat travellers or foreigner’s better than you treat your own family, that giving is a holy expression of gods love - that the act is akin to communion with the holy spirit, that as children of God we can all overcome our shortcomings and learn to live holy, that bankers and interest rates are evil and beyond reproach (literally the only time he gets mad in the book), to live under the law of your local government but eschew mixing with it - Jesus told us to live our lives outside of and away from government - that the answer is always love, acceptance and humility, that faith is an action and it means giving your last of anything away and having faith that when you’re in need, God will provide. It is life on the absolute edge of desolation/death. Have you ever even experienced faith? Most people have not.
THAT religion sounds beautiful. I’ve met maybe 3 actual Christians in my entire life and they are bright lights in a sea of darkness. Wonderful, amazing people. I can see why a religion would spring from Jesus’ teachings. Heaven probably only has like 300 people in it. But they are literally the best 300 people ever. After meeting them, you wouldn’t miss anyone not there…
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“This method of voting is bad and could be abused, but if it helps us win I’m all for it.”
- Robert Tyler, Attorney representing Conservative Churches/Pastors
“Us”
Republicans Harvesting Ballots is PROOF that DEMOCRATS Harvested Ballots!
The Church treats mail in voting like an abortion.
“Only mine is valid”
Any church that does this should not get to be tax-free under the religious exemptions, because they’re also a political organization
I think Churches should be taxed regardless but I don’t think what’s happening here is really cause for concern. They don’t seem to be telling the people who to vote for just telling them they should vote and helping facilitate them. My voting location is actually a church and I know lots of churches will help drive people to the polls on voting day. I think that’s all ok. People should all be allowed to vote. No matter how much I disagree with their beliefs.
Oh, it’s not partisan? That’s… fine, yeah
Why? Do you think non-religious get out the vote groups should also be forced to pay taxes? I think there is a huge difference between helping congregants vote and telling congregant to vote for Trump.
“But the rules of the game have changed,”
What has changed? From my understanding, mail in ballots have existed as far back as the civil war. This biggest changes to this came in the 70’s when you no longer needed a reason to use this method. If anything, the fact that they are jumping on board and collecting the ballots for them seems extremely shady…
Robert Tyler, a California-based attorney who represents conservative churches and pastors, said he still believes “ballot harvesting and universal vote by mail creates opportunities for fraud.”
And is therefore going to prove it by committing that fraud himself.
Good. Mail everyone a damned ballot. Postage paid preferably.
As long as each of those ballots is filled out by an individual who is registered and legally able to vote, and is sealed by that person before it is handed off to whoever, I’m OK with this. I might rib them about their rank hypocrisy, but if they’re not falsifying ballots, they’re not really doing anything wrong.
Seriously, the idea of “ballot harvesting” is bullshit invented by people who just want to make it harder for people to vote because they’re afraid the people might vote against them.
make their voices heard as Christians.
… And vote for the pornstar-fucking-while-the-wofe-is-pregnant, charity robbing, fraudulent, rude, narcissistic, dictator loving, lying, stealing, thieving, gluttonist, narcissistic asshole with psychopathic tendencies because, you know, Christ!
If the rule is “ballot harvesting is OK” you’re going to get this kind of behavior. And it rewards whichever of the megaparties builds the most efficient political machine.
I’d personally rather have an actual election day with mandated work leave for the entire day, and rare application of absentee ballots for people with extenuating circumstances.
I want absentee to be the norm. It means that voters can take their time and research what they are voting for based on more than just the voter’s pamphlet.
My state has been like this for years, and there haven’t been any problems.
Same here (I want that to remain). It’s a much better way for an informed vote, IMO.
In Canada we have early voting days (usually a couple of weeks before the actual election day and often on weekends) for anyone who can’t vote on the actual day.
But we also have a functioning judicial system and far less right-wing self-righteousness than America does (so far anyway, but it is migrating up here at an increasing pace).
We have shown no evidence of them doing this, so have to do it ourselves to show it is a problem.
EDIT: If they are just registering voters and mailing in their legal votes, then I don’t see any problem with them doing this.
