There’s a big difference between being against Israel and being antisemitic, and people need to see that. Heck, I’m literally Jewish and I don’t support Israel.
And, as I’ve heard someone else point out - isn’t it literally anti-Semitic to assume that Jews and Israelis are, like, the same thing? And/or that Israel is, like, the global mouthpiece for Jews everywhere? Seems a bit reductive, to me… Seems on the same level as thinking the leader of Kenya, or Nigeria, or any African nation speaks for Black people everywhere.
I’ve always felt the nation of Israel is squatting on the name. Like, aren’t there people outside of Israel-the-nation that also claim to be Israel (in the Biblical sense)?
Rubenberg 1989, p. 358: “The labeling of individuals who disagree with the lobby’s positions as “anti-Semitic” is a common practice among Israel’s advocates. For example, when Senator Charles Mathias [R., Maryland] voted in favor of the AWACs sale to Saudi Arabia, a Jewish newspaper in New York commented: “Mr. Mathias values the importance of oil over the well-being of Jews and the State of Israel. The Jewish people cannot be fooled by such a person, no matter what he said, because his act proved who he was.” Former Congressman Paul “Pete” McCloskey [R., California] also has had the charge of anti-Semitism leveled at him: “When I ran for reelection in 1980, I was asked a question about peace in the Middle East, and I said if we were going to have peace in the Middle East we members of Congress were going to have to stand up to our Jewish constituents and respectfully disagree with them on Israel. Well, the next day the Anti-Defamation League of the B’nai B’rith accused me of fomenting anti-Semitism, saying that my remarks were patently anti-Semitic.” Indeed, it may be that the weapon of greatest power possessed by the pro-Israeli lobby is its accusation of anti-Semitism. George Ball comments: “They’ve got one great thing going for them. Most people are terribly concerned not to be accused of being anti-Semitic, and the lobby so often equates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. They keep pounding away at that theme, and people are deterred from speaking out.” In Ball’s view, many Americans feel a “sense of guilt” over the Holocaust, and the result of their guilt is that the fear of being called anti-Semitic is “much more effective in silencing candidates and public officials than threats about campaign money or votes.””
I am “against” religion as I think it does more harm than good but I am pro religious freedom for everyone and a peaceful cooperative global society. So I think that makes me hardly hateful towards religions or the believers. Well tbh I have a hard time accepting religious extremist positions in societies, but everything comes with a price… I take religious freedom for everyone if that means someone thinks a book with instructions on how to abort a baby is against abortion and that it should be law.
Most extremists are worrisome. Some cause more trouble for those around them than others, though. An extreme pacifist might get more abuse than someone who isn’t, for instance, and that isn’t great, but it’s a more personal problem than trying to force your views and behaviors on others, which many other types of extremists try to do.
An extreme pacifist might get more abuse than someone who isn’t, for instance
Don’t know whether I’d qualify as extreme, but yeah, pacifism tends to be equated with all sorts of deliberate harm by some people who consider things like war and violent retribution necessary evils if not even inherently good 😮💨
Also, there’s the “sticking to your principles in spite of popular sentiment is the same as naïveté” crowd 🤦
I’m against the Israeli government’s murder of children and murder of all the other innocent people in Palestine.
Should I be against Israel itself?
Note I’m [US] American, so I’m against the incalculable harms we’ve perpetrated on the world and our own citizens over the past couple hundred years. I would hesitate - pending some replies to me here - to say “I don’t support the USA” given the very cool people and the Bernie Sanders types and the benevolent US aid organizations and the National Parks and so on (some fediverse developers)… but have an open mind and curious to hear your thoughts on semantics.
At this point, when someone says they are ‘against Israel’, what they mean is that they are against the genocide the Israeli army is carrying out in Gaza. Maybe there are some who want the country itself toppled - neo-Nazis, for example, or those detached from reality - but they are a small minority (outside of Iran, perhaps).
There’s a big difference between being against Israel and being antisemitic, and people need to see that. Heck, I’m literally Jewish and I don’t support Israel.
And, as I’ve heard someone else point out - isn’t it literally anti-Semitic to assume that Jews and Israelis are, like, the same thing? And/or that Israel is, like, the global mouthpiece for Jews everywhere? Seems a bit reductive, to me… Seems on the same level as thinking the leader of Kenya, or Nigeria, or any African nation speaks for Black people everywhere.
Netanyahu isn’t the Emperor of Jews!
Wouldn’t it be more like “king of the Jews”? Btw, does anyone know where I can get a large cross and nails? Asking for a friend.
Between the username and the shopping list, I believe we’ve got a Roman on our hands here…
Romanes eunt domus!
What’s this, then? ‘Romanes Eunt Domus’? ‘People called Romanes they go the house’?
Romans go home (?)
No, it doesn’t. What’s Latin for ‘Roman’? Come on!
I’ve always felt the nation of Israel is squatting on the name. Like, aren’t there people outside of Israel-the-nation that also claim to be Israel (in the Biblical sense)?
Israel, the state, tries to conflate the two in order to have an impenetrable shield against all scrutiny.
“Jesus Christ, Israel, why are you playing soccer with dead babies?!”
“Excuse me? What, do you hate Jews or something? What, are you some kind of Nazi?”
Israel has weaponized antisemitism, it’s not even a secret and they admitted it a while back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaponization_of_antisemitism?wprov=sfla1
Do you have a source for Israel admitting it? That Wikipedia article is long!
Rubenberg 1989, p. 358: “The labeling of individuals who disagree with the lobby’s positions as “anti-Semitic” is a common practice among Israel’s advocates. For example, when Senator Charles Mathias [R., Maryland] voted in favor of the AWACs sale to Saudi Arabia, a Jewish newspaper in New York commented: “Mr. Mathias values the importance of oil over the well-being of Jews and the State of Israel. The Jewish people cannot be fooled by such a person, no matter what he said, because his act proved who he was.” Former Congressman Paul “Pete” McCloskey [R., California] also has had the charge of anti-Semitism leveled at him: “When I ran for reelection in 1980, I was asked a question about peace in the Middle East, and I said if we were going to have peace in the Middle East we members of Congress were going to have to stand up to our Jewish constituents and respectfully disagree with them on Israel. Well, the next day the Anti-Defamation League of the B’nai B’rith accused me of fomenting anti-Semitism, saying that my remarks were patently anti-Semitic.” Indeed, it may be that the weapon of greatest power possessed by the pro-Israeli lobby is its accusation of anti-Semitism. George Ball comments: “They’ve got one great thing going for them. Most people are terribly concerned not to be accused of being anti-Semitic, and the lobby so often equates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. They keep pounding away at that theme, and people are deterred from speaking out.” In Ball’s view, many Americans feel a “sense of guilt” over the Holocaust, and the result of their guilt is that the fear of being called anti-Semitic is “much more effective in silencing candidates and public officials than threats about campaign money or votes.””
From the Wikipedia article
What’s funny is how media and Zionists call Jews antisemitic.
Being against, doesn’t make you hateful anyway.
I am “against” religion as I think it does more harm than good but I am pro religious freedom for everyone and a peaceful cooperative global society. So I think that makes me hardly hateful towards religions or the believers. Well tbh I have a hard time accepting religious extremist positions in societies, but everything comes with a price… I take religious freedom for everyone if that means someone thinks a book with instructions on how to abort a baby is against abortion and that it should be law.
Most extremists are worrisome. Some cause more trouble for those around them than others, though. An extreme pacifist might get more abuse than someone who isn’t, for instance, and that isn’t great, but it’s a more personal problem than trying to force your views and behaviors on others, which many other types of extremists try to do.
Don’t know whether I’d qualify as extreme, but yeah, pacifism tends to be equated with all sorts of deliberate harm by some people who consider things like war and violent retribution necessary evils if not even inherently good 😮💨
Also, there’s the “sticking to your principles in spite of popular sentiment is the same as naïveté” crowd 🤦
I’m against the Israeli government’s murder of children and murder of all the other innocent people in Palestine.
Should I be against Israel itself?
Note I’m [US] American, so I’m against the incalculable harms we’ve perpetrated on the world and our own citizens over the past couple hundred years. I would hesitate - pending some replies to me here - to say “I don’t support the USA” given the very cool people and the Bernie Sanders types and the benevolent US aid organizations and the National Parks and so on (some fediverse developers)… but have an open mind and curious to hear your thoughts on semantics.
At this point, when someone says they are ‘against Israel’, what they mean is that they are against the genocide the Israeli army is carrying out in Gaza. Maybe there are some who want the country itself toppled - neo-Nazis, for example, or those detached from reality - but they are a small minority (outside of Iran, perhaps).
Yes.