Hitting the gym to become a swoletariat, looking to arm myself as well.
I’ve gone shooting before, and my Dad just bought a couple guns himself because of all the pogroms he’s been seeing against Muslims in ingerland.
I’m based in the United States of Amerikkka, mods please let me know if this isn’t allowed!
If you just want to learn to shoot and not worried about self defense at the moment, Ruger 10/22. 22 lr ammo is so cheap.
I have a 1022 and it’s so bad. More unreliable than the musket I built myself. Jams basically every mag.
22lr guns are notoriously picky on ammo. I had to try 6 different types to find one that fed reliably.
Not if you have a good one. My Taurus shoots anything from dogshit ammo to CCI
Sorry the musket you built yourself? No doxxa but have you posted about this?
It’s just from a kit, I’m not that good at building stuff
That sucks. Could maybe be the barrel is misaligned? I used to have one that was amazing and I was thinking about getting one again. Seems like other people have similar issues when they use cheaper ammo too, which is why I want a 22 lmao
are you using the ruger factory mags or aftermarket ones? aftermarket mags seem to create problems sometimes from what ive heard. also agree with the other replies about ammo.
Factory
Follow up question: if le arms of flame are verboten in a certain living location, what would SWIY suggest doing for SWIM
I don’t understand
They’re asking what you’d get for self defense if firearms are banned
Check to see if my state considers black powder guns to be firearms
Repeating Crossbow?
a .22 so you have something to shoot on the cheap
The very first thing you should build should be an IFAK. Need to have a TQ and be able to stop bleeding, so take atleast a stop the bleed class.
Glock 19 is going to be the standard due to abundance of parts and they shoot good. HM are glock 17 and 43, some people prefer those especially the 43 for concealed carry. If you’re going to CC then i suggest getting a Philster Enigma, they are the best purchase you can make after buying the gun.
For rifle get an AR15. Other than legally not being able to get one, they’re is very little reason to go with something else as your first. Brand doesn’t matter too much, Palmetto State Armory is probably the lowest quality i would recommend going with but you really shouldn’t spend a crazy amount, 450 to 750 will get you something good.
After you buy your guns, throw a red dot on them get some ammo and start shooting. You’ll next want to look into holsters, slings, and other fun parts of the hobby.
IFAK is underrated advice. Unless you’re living in gangland, then statistically you’re more likely to shoot yourself than you are to shoot someone in self defense. Some community events may even offer first aid/stop the bleed classes for free. Knowing how to patch someone up will make you a better defender than a majority of American gun owners.
Should disclaim that red dot advice does not apply if you have astigmatism. TRY a red dot before you BUY a red dot. 1-8x scopes and prism sights are both valid alternatives.
What are you looking to do? Are you interested in doing a shooting activity regularly? Just looking to own one?
Like the default loadout that gets recommended is going to be a Glock (17 or 19) and an AR-15.
Not looking to start any safety struggle sessions, but if you’re a new gun owner who likes the idea of safeties (or just an old gun owner who prefers safeties) I would suggest the S&W M&P pistols as a good Glock alternative that offers thumb safeties.
Second alternative: sawed off 12 gauge. No load can beat the shere stopping power of 00 buckshot.
Edit to add: and no fear of missing and putting a hole through your neighbor’s house across the street.
I assume this is a bit, but just in case it isn’t: do not saw off a shotgun for home defense unless you’re planning to apply for the tax stamp
You can also still miss with a short barreled shotgun, it’s not a blunderbuss
The shortened barrel is intended for point blank usage, such as a home invasion scenario. It’s easier to get the gun up and harder for the assailant to push the gun to the side using the barrel, or worse, to pull it out of your hands. The gun I had in mind particularly is the Mossberg 590M. With that “doohickey” you also have the option of having up to 20 rounds in a magazine, but I’ve heard those have a higher jam rate than the 10-shot mags.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say box mags on pump shotguns are range toys, not real self defense weapons. If you’re going to use a shotgun for home defense, an 18" pump is plenty short without having to break out the hacksaw and look over your shoulder for ATF agents every day. Even a 20" is plenty maneuverable for home defense, to be honest. If you’re not going to train with it enough to get past the possibility of short stroking the action, get a semi-auto shotgun if you absolutely need a shotgun.
I feel like I’ve misled you somehow. I wasn’t meaning literally saw it off yourself. I meant buy one that has a short barrel.
Generally if you’re referring to a shotgun with a short barrel, it’s a short barreled shotgun. A “sawed off” means a gun you’ve sawed the barrel off of to shorten it.
Would it not be better to use a gun with actual sights that you can aim and use at an actual distance if needed? Handguns are more maneuverable and much better to aim. Also no dealing with the laws around short-barrel shotguns.
Even at point blank, a shotgun is a worse choice than a rifle or handgun.
I think a semi-auto shotgun is probably as good as a rifle within the scope of defending yourself inside your home. At home defense ranges, a regular shotgun bead is plenty to hit a man sized target reliably every time - you can hit clays moving way faster than a human with them just fine.
Higher risk of overpenetration (00 shoots 9mm pellets, which retain a lot more energy through walls than lightweight 556 does), higher risk of failing to cycle (recoil powered shotguns need to be tuned right, gas powered ones are spendy), and you definitely should not shoot without properly aiming in any situation, that’d be massively irresponsible.
It can work, but it has disadvantages that a rifle does not, and no real benefits over one.
I think DA/SA with a decocker is a good middle ground. You don’t need to worry about turning off the safety like a striker fire, but the trigger will be heavy and you can thumb the hammer which makes it impossible for the gun to go off.
But M&P 2.0 is very good as well. The models with thumb safeties are usually cheaper as well since they’re not as popular as just the trigger safety.
I’m not personally a fan of decockers because I like my trigger pulls consistent, but I think you’re probably right about them being a fairly good alternative if the complete lack of a safety isn’t your preference. A lot of my personal preference is just starting out with a da/sa cz-75 with a thumb safety (always cocked & locked, never safety off with the hammer lowered) as my first pistol and being used to the manual of arms to the point of preferring it. I wish CZ’s more carry oriented stuff were still easy to find with thumb safeties.
Primarily for self defense, would look to get my CC eventually
Ok. My recommendation will be to try a couple different handguns out at the range, from the ones that have been recommended here. See which ones fit comfortably in your hands. Try a lot of them and take your time, don’t rush.
For conceal carry, focus on size. A gun that is too big or uncomfortable to carry doesn’t get carried. It may be a little less comfortable to shoot, but that’s the tradeoff. The big brands are the way to go (Glock, Sig, S&W)
Consider the S&W Shield 2.0 with or without thumb safety depending on your preference, very small but shoots great in the hand for extended range sessions. I have a 1.0 with an Apex trigger and aftermarket mag feeders/plates so that I can get 10+1. It’s a great gun with the same footprint as the 2.0, shoots great, feels great in the hand, conceals great. The 2.0 makes all the shit I did to my early 1.0 unnecessary - the 2.0 has a better trigger than the 1.0 and greater magazine capacity. Fantastic guns that shoot nicer than their pricepoint.
If you’re looking to CC then aim for the micro compact segment. They have a good round count while being slimmer and easier to conceal than “compact” guns like the Glock 19. There are a ton of models in this space but there aren’t a ton that have safeties that many of us would recommend to a newer shooter. If you’re budget minded I would recommend the Taurus G3C, which can easily be had for under $300. But definitely put hands on it and try to get range time with it before your purchase.
Another thing, I would avoid Glock.
They are 100% reliable. They’re the Toyota/Honda of pistols - reliable and parts are ubiquitous. However the prices don’t reflect that. New ones are usually $400-600 even after sales. Meanwhile, other models with Glock inspired/copied designs go for the same price while having higher quality improvements out the box, potentially saving you hundreds in aftermarket parts. CZ P10 series and M&P 2.0 series can frequently be found at sub $300.
Regarding aftermarkets, it’s one of the most common reason for why people like glocks. But I personally advise against aftermarket parts for self defense purposes outside of grip tape, lights, sights, optics. Internals should be kept stock at all times for maximum reliability. And if you maintain this philosophy, then nearly every other pistol has the same accessories available.
However, if you must get a glock, find a used/barely used police trade in. These can be found for around $300-$400 with extra mags and upgrades and be just as reliable as brand new ones. Because glocks are so ubiquitous, magazines and spare OEM parts will be easy to find. Magazines can be as little as $10 whereas other brands will be in the $30s.
Thank you! Will go to a range and check them out!
AR-15. It is the most popular gun for a reason. Any compact 9mm for concealed carry if you want to do that. Anything else is only if you want it for fun/reasons other than self defense.
What about if you live someplace that’s banned semi-auto rifles?
You can essentially get a “pistol” that is functionally a rifle
In some parts of America, this is still considered a pistol, including the 50 round drum mag
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Yep, also can’t have a vertical foregrip.
But hey, just don’t use the brace as a shoulder stock, right?
PS90.
I just like stargate SG-1. It’s a terrible first gun, I just really want one.
Forget buying “good” guns as your first. Go with only the most practical self defense options: A Lady’s Home Companion and a homemade punt gun
The 16in barrel just makes it so fugly. Truly the worst crime of the NFA
Absolutely
Stargate SG-1 was the first show I watched to completion and I could barely watch an episode now, it just reeks of a libs idea of what the US military is (or should be) :(
I like the P90 from a “let’s do it different to see what’s up” sense
FWIW, 5.7x28mm is a very good round for penetrating kevlar vests and is very controllable and has pretty good ballistics out to the ranges you’d practically use a handgun or PDW for
Hopefully you’re never in a situation where that would be a useful advantage
It’s also expensive as hell per round for its size and a handgun chambered in it is going to have a chunkier grip due to the length of the magwell
(I still kinda want a Keltec P50 though)
Yeah, it’s a very engineering round, fine for someone designing a gun assuming they can negotiate a supply chain, but probably impractical for an end user
You’re absolutely right, it’s the liberal star trek.
Want want want want want
a .22 pistol. you can take it to the range for cheap, and carry it if you need to.
if you are buying two guns, I would say a .22 rifle, and a centerfire pistol in the caliber of your choosing (stick with 9 mm, .40, or .45). Glock is reliable, and probably has the largest aftermarket market if you ever feel like customizing it. Ruger is inexpensive and reliable.
some cz pistol just so i could show my grandma it
Classic short rail cz-75
I personally can’t shoot very well with Glocks, but otherwise agree with the other comments. Get a 9mm pistol, and an AR rifle in .556 or .223 Wylde. This is mainly about the ubiquity and relative cost of those ammo types, as well as the parts for the AR.
Relevant but old posts and comments: https://hexbear.net/post/2830
https://hexbear.net/comment/2565959
https://hexbear.net/post/204709
My answer from a previous time this was asked
I’d go to a gun range, rent several double-stack polymer 9mm pistols one after another, and buy the one that feels right. I’d also buy a Ruger 10/22.
Then an AR, a shotgun, and a 22 pistol, in no particular order.
I bought the double barreled shotgun from bugs bunny and a Colt revolver.
I want a side by side shotty. No practical use for it, but, they are pretty.
And I figure it’s easier to hit something with a shotgun, as long as it’s not a wascally wabit.
- DA/SA: CZ75 75D Compact/ CZ P-01
This has a decocker, so it provides the benefit of not having to fiddle with a manual safety like a striker fire, while providing more control for extra safety (e.g. heavier first trigger pull (with light follow up trigger) and thumbing the hammer so it can’t go off even if the trigger is snagged accidentally). CZ is also one of the few manufacturers that still makes carry sized DA/SA pistols, but their classic full sized pistols are also good if you plan on just leaving it as a home gun; you’ll also find more DA/SA if you look for full sized. People tend to exaggerate the difficulty of DA/SA because of the two trigger pulls, but honestly just think of it as stepping on the pedal to accelerate to a certain speed then letting go and lightly tapping to cruise at the speed. 75D compact = classic cz75 design; P-01 = has a rail for light but no classic ‘ridge’
- DA/SA alternative: P07/P09
CZ is stupid with its naming conventions so I don’t remember what’s what, but these are basically the polymer versions of the CZ75. They come in decocker versions too. These will be very light since the frame is plastic.
- .22 pistol: Taurus TX22 or Ruger MK IV
Even when .22 is expensive, it’s still cheaper compared to 9mm. You’ll get more shots off with these which will help you be more comfortable with the explosions and practice fundamentals. You’ll likely be using this a lot when times are bad and ammo prices are ass. It won’t make you a pro with your primary weapon, but it’ll reinforce the fundamentals which transfers to most pistols. Alternatively, think of it as fitness conditioning. You won’t gain a lot of muscles from just cardio, but cardio will help you endure strength training a lot more.
Pro tip: the only American made pistol worth having from a self defense standpoint is the M&P 2.0.
Pretty much all the true and tested pistols are European.
- Glock
- CZ
- Walther
- HK
- German/Austrian Sig Sauer (I don’t think anyone has ever questioned the quality of Sig until the Americans acquired, designed, and manufactured the guns)
Springfield has the XD, Hellcat, and Echelon, but these are imported from Croatia. They’re G2G.
As for ARs, you’ll find quality in US and EU. Quality AKs will usually be from Balkans, Romania, Poland, and if you can find them, Russia and China.
Only posting to echo how good the CZ-P01 is. I owned a subcompact Glock and hated it; sold it to a guy who worked at a donut shop and got a CZ and it is just so good in every way (except it’s not especially small or light, but that makes it good in other ways)
Check out the Protos M holster from BlackArch. Very comfortable and I barely feel the weight.
It is both allowed and encouraged
Coming in with a suggestion that I’m surprised isn’t more common: get yourself a revolver.
All guns are “in case of emergency” items (if you aren’t a hunter or a plinker). So if you want something that you can leave in a safe/nightstand for 5 years, and then feel completely confident it’s going to fire if/when you need it, you need a piece with the fewest possible moving/degradable/high-maintenance parts, which is a wheelgun. If you aren’t looking to disassemble and maintain it regularly (or go out to a commercial range/shop and pay to have them do it for you every year or more), it’s really the only option you can feel confident in 10 years down the line.
It’s also a great first because if you do end up collecting more, you’ll still always have a near failproof backup.
Shooting a revolver is a skill. I don’t think it’s a good recommendation for a new gun owner
I don’t know that I agree 100%. Shooting any type of gun ought to be practiced if the idea is to be able to defend yourself in the case you ever have to, and a revolver isn’t so much more complicated than a pistol that it’s going to take much longer to get used to. What do you see as being the most difficult differences?
I shoot a lot of USPSA using 2011s but carry a small J frame revolver and it is very, very difficult. I sometimes will practice a couple of rounds with the j frame after a practice session and the super low profile sights and double action is a significant challenge.
It’s not easy. Any revolver that you use for carry is going to be challenging to shoot well under pressure. It’s not impossible but let’s be realistic. I’m actually okay at USPSA and I’ll be the first one to tell you it’s not easy and it’s humbling every time I shoot my j frame and don’t get the results that I expect
I guess I may be in the minority then, just since they don’t seem quite as drastically different to me in terms of feel and difficulty to shoot with decent/moderate accuracy. I’m not shooting for points though, so I’m not too disappointed by an inch left or right at the range, especially when I’m going to be within 20 feet of any target in any likely self-defense situation. And once I learned to avoid muzzle dip (didn’t take longer than a day at the range) the double action doesn’t seem too troublesome
you need a piece with the fewest possible moving/degradable/high-maintenance parts, which is a wheelgun.
This isn’t really correct. Revolvers have quite a few moving parts and they can absolutely break and their timing can go out or just straight up fail. A striker fired gun that you can tear down yourself and re-assemble is a much simpler and easier to diagnose and fix weapon than any revolver.
Easier to diagnose and fix once you learn everything, but also a lot more that can go wrong/break/jam. I’m just saying that I’d trust a revolver left loaded in a toolbox for 15 years way more than a 10 year old Glock I might see next to it if I needed to grab one and fire.
That’s the beauty of the Glock, there’s so few parts that there’s not much of anything to learn. Revolvers are like lever actions, in that it seems like they’d be simpler and more robust firearms than newer things, but it’s really the opposite of the truth and neither are user-serviceable. Getting either to run right may very well require the gunsmith to not just replace parts but custom fit them to make the timing work right.
Revolvers are way more complicated than pistols.
As a plus, you can leave a revolver loaded without issue, whereas magazines need to be stored empty.
magazines need to be stored empty.
Springs don’t degrade from being stored compressed, they degrade from being cycled. You can store mags full without worry.
That’s (good) news to me; retired cop turned gun store salesman told me to always store them empty. Not saying he knows what he’s talking about, because, after all, he was still a pig, and cops are about as bright as a box of rocks.
Yeah you can store mags full without worry, if it makes your brain itch just grab a few replacement springs and toss em in the ammo can with the loaded mags for a just-in-case
Keeping a Colt Single Action Army with a comically long barrel as your everyday carry in your pinstripe dress pants is a life goal of mine.
Or it would be if I was misfortunate enough to be American.
