“I need my chicken to come in drumstick form or I can’t eat it” fuck you either own the murder or change your diet coward
You are going to quickly arguing yourself into hopeless contradiction if you think this framing of intrinsic deserving as a variable feature and moralistic bullshit like that. Killing something yourself doesn’t make it better or worse, this argument just appeals to you because you know many people wouldn’t be able to. Wanting to make fewer people eat meat is cool and good, but vapid sophistry is not how you get there.
You are effectively murdering at least part of an animal by choosing to eat it. The average meat eater will kill several animals over the course of a year.
Living an unexamined life to prevent guilt about something you know you would feel is wrong so you can keep benefiting from that act being commited in your name is just as bad as doing the act itself but with the added element of cowardice and so is therefore worse.
I don’t know man, there’s a lot of people out there who couldn’t stand killing an animal but eat meat and don’t see any problem with it.
Like this doesn’t gotcha people who hunt, because then the answer is “yup”. Hell I know quite a few hunting meat eaters who think similarly on the basis of thinking factory farming is fucked up.
I feel like there’s a point about how a lot of this is socialization of how food is procured. People in the US generally speaking don’t eat bugs since it’s a settler colonial state descended from Europe that doesn’t really have edible insects. In SEA though you’ll see much more insect consumption without a stigma because it’s part of what you grow up with and there are a variety of edible insects. Similarly, someone living far to the north will likely be very comfortable with hunting. In an industrialized society we’re very alienated from most of the production chains that go into our daily lives. We don’t pick our fruit and vegetables, we don’t toil on a farm, the food just sorta appears in a grocery store packaged for easy consumption which leads to people making videos where they’ll swear off fruit after dunking a strawberry in brine and seeing worms come out.
I feel like there’s a point about how a lot of this is socialization of how food is procured.
Consumed, rather, wouldn’t it be? I agree with your comment, but the procurement doesn’t even really play into it.
But other than that, yeah, even back when I ate meat I thought the “eww bugs” thing was dumb. C’mon man it’s just different food. You can’t hate on your boomer parents for refusing to try $local_large_immigrant_community_food because and then turn around and think eating bugs is disgusting
hunting is also somewhat necessary to keep a stable ecosystem in many places (granted it’s also unstable because of human activities). If we need to shoot some deer or whatever every year I don’t see a problem letting those who did it eat the corpses, meanwhile animal agriculture should just be abolished all together
Active hunter but the whole thing about population control is mostly just us jerking ourselves off.
What would be way more effective is not eliminating the habitat of natural predators or ranchers killing wolves for daring to have the audacity of eating a cow the farmer doesn’t wanna bother fence in.
Pretty useful data to track populati9ns though.
Strip out the moralistic nonsense. Here’s an earnest question: would you eat meat if you had to kill it yourself?
No that sounds like a lot of work. But i wouldn’t eat veggies if i had to harvest them all myself either. I would just die lmao
You can easily harvest a week’s worth of veggies in an hour or less.
Good thing there’s no other time requirements for veggies other than harvesting.
That was going ti be the secondary point, but still, if you know what you want you can get quite a lot out of it reasonably easily.
i think this is maybe slightly simplifying the game
The unfortunate thing is that it would probably still be doable for me if a butcher took it from there.
Here’s a post that definitely won’t end up locked after at least one Hexbear gets banned
We have vegan struggle sessions much like the moon has cycles
Vegan struggle sessions are like Hexbear Highlander. Eventually there will only be vegans left because each one some of the carnists get deleted from the Internet, but then they’ll argue about some semantic difference between various types of veganism, until the only Hexbears that are left are Jains. I don’t think they’ll fight each other off though all that Jains I’ve ever known were the chillest.
So I guess the end state of Hexbear is Jainbear. Which sounds neat probably
brb, gonna go get a broom so I can sweep the bugs from my path
I do relocate snails and worms if they’re likely to be stepped on.
Removed by mod
Id eat my cat if it was legal and for some reason i felt like it. Hes nice but he is but a cat.
Hes more valuable to me as a “friend” rather than food but if circumstances change then its the law getting in the way of what i should be free to do. This is part of why i think there idealy shouldnt be a state.
I’ve always found it interesting that hexbear line is that it is alright to kill the Tsars kids, but not alright to eat them.
That’s not the line. Of course you can eat the Tsars kids. We are fine with eating the rich. You just can’t eat the Tsars pets
[Thurston Howell III Voice] Is the washwoman a pet?
I’ve done some hunting and skinned a deer in my time. It’s not as stomach churning as you may think.
However what is stomach churning is what happens in factory farms. I’m not nearly as concerned with the slaughter as I am with the conditions the animals are kept in up until the slaughter
I just get meat from hunting, but I know a lot of people that just get their meat from local farms. I think it makes it a lot easier knowing that the animals get a good life, instead of how horrible those factory conditions are on the poor guys
The real problem with people who eat meat is that they haven’t completely inured themselves to the screams of the dying.
More Americans should do the FFA thing, where you raise a baby piglet to slaughter weight and then personally tear the adorable creature’s heart out with a knife. That’s definitely going to produce a bunch of vegetarians and not a generation of hollow-eyed psychopaths. Can’t wait till we have more guys like Ron DeSantis, staring blankly into empty space for hours on end, then giggling softly any time they hear the sounds of pain.
Yup, you can tell people what’s going on in the background all you want but until they see it themselves, nothing will change.
It’s why factory farms and other agricultural industries have basically made it illegal for you to know what’s happening
I don’t get whether this is for op or against them
Removed by mod
If you can’t stomach soldering fumes you shouldn’t get to use electronics. If you don’t acid etch your own circuit boards you disgust me.
Do components suffer in order to be produced into useful electronic devices?
You’re making a separate argument. The argument OP is making is that people shouldn’t be able to eat animals if they can’t butcher them. Which isn’t really a Vegan argument, or even an argument against making animals suffer since it implies that people should be able to eat meat as long as they have experience hunting and butchering. As someone else said
Killing something yourself doesn’t make it better or worse, this argument just appeals to you because you know many people wouldn’t be able to. Wanting to make fewer people eat meat is cool and good, but vapid sophistry is not how you get there.
I think maybe you’re reading into my words a bit more deeply than I thought anybody would (though I am a vegan and you’re right, I do like the idea of setting a high skill floor on eating meat because I am a vegan).
My argument is merely that it’s okay to govern some treats differently than others because there are fundamentally distinct classes of treats and that therefore, proposing that people have to do the killing and/or butchering of an animal in order to acquire it is not analogous to requiring that people mine raw materials, process them into everything needed to produce semiconductors, and then build there own electronics “from scratch”.
Which isn’t really a Vegan argument,
Totally agree, but it would cut demand for industrial meat production so massively I have trouble rejecting the idea on these grounds alone
proposing that people have to do the killing and/or butchering of an animal in order to acquire it is not analogous to requiring that people mine raw materials, process them into everything needed to produce semiconductors, and then build there own electronics “from scratch”.
No they’re not perfectly analogous. But why “propose” anything? If you’re Vegan why not just say “people shouldn’t eat meat, carnists can get fucked”? Proposing a change in the rules of how meat should be eaten is just a reformist half measure. And the truth is you’re not going to get anywhere without revolutionary activity. If you really had the power to enforce the rule that people can only eat meat if they butcher it themselves, then that would be reflective of a society in which a revolution has already happened. But we don’t live in that kind of society. Nobody is going to pass that law because we live in a society run by carnists and capitalists. If you truly lived in a society where you could force the rules to be that, then you might as well just make eating meat entirely illegal at that point.
For sure, and “people shouldn’t eat meat, carnists can get fucked” has been said elsewhere
right, and “people can still eat meat as long as they kill it themselves” is a step backwards from that, as far as proposals go.
Agreed. It’s also better than what we have now.
Asking carnists to confront their own inconsistency is probably one of the oldest vegan arguments.
Like watching self-proclaimed “animal lovers” go on and on about how much they love bacon. Point out that the bacon is an animal with basically the same emotional and cognizant status as their dog and they get pretty upset. It’s the inconsistency that drives this response and it’s these agitations that lead to personal action.
Same thing applies to political agitation btw. We make agitprop intended to play on personal moral consistency like not wanting babies to get bombed, like thinking of themselves as non-racist, like “a full time job should be enough”, etc.
There are many people out there who would not slaughter their own food because they don’t want to harm the animals. There is an easy solution to this: make minor lifestyle changes. What prevents it is the decontextualization that prevents them from setting a red slab as an animal, the disconnect between primary production and their consumption, and a series of reactionary thought patterns that are reinforced by lefties just as much as, if not more than, their liberal counterparts.
Well if it’s intended as a rhetorical strategy to get carnists to confront themselves, then great. That works. I was arguing with it because it was presented as a reformist proposal.
I don’t even know how this could be a reformist proposal. What is being reformed, what’s the alternative, and how is OP proposing it?
never mind, you’re not the person I was talking to yesterday. I was thinking of a different conversation. apologies.
No biggie it’s all good
no but the workers do.
How does me killing my own meat stop animals from suffering? If anything OP is encouraging animal suffering. When amateurs kill animals there is more chance for the animals to have a prolonged and painful death. Encouraging amateurs to butcher their own meat will lead to more waste meaning more animals will die.
OP: I think “If not A, then not B.”
You: oh fuck they’re telling everyone to do B!
More like OP is saying “If you’re okay with eating meat then you’re okay with animal slaughter.”
Which, sure.
And then goes on to say, “You’re only allowed to be okay with slaughter if you do it yourself.”
lol y tho. If we’re just doing the debatelord formal logicgame, then the conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise.
Because the personal confrontation highlights the inconsistency hidden by commodification and the abstraction of the food item. For many, support for violence against animals for entertainment purposes can only be supported by such a disconnect.
Personally, I think this point is obvious and hexbear is continuing to show its ass and internalized liberalism. I’m convinced that most people here don’t even do anything irl, so they should at least try to have basic empathy and understanding in lieu of that.
Personally, I think this point is obvious and hexbear is continuing to show its ass and internalized liberalism. I’m convinced that most people here don’t even do anything irl,
How does this post encourage any kind of political organizing? Making the focus of your political messaging on the hyper-individualist concept of personal choice, voting with your wallet, and consumer behavior is about as liberal as you can get. Consumer spending habits will never be a solution to the abuses of industrial food processing because those abuses are not a function of consumer demand. And if your proposed plan of action has no viable theory of change attached to it, then it is not a political position. It is virtue signaling, and nothing more.
You are giving the rocks the power to think. So I can only assume that they suffer
The doped silicon has played us for absolute fools
Do components suffer
They may start soon
Surely you’re trying to miss the point.
I think breathing solder fumes is disgusting. I pay for someone else to do it for me and they don’t get paid well. My using electronics is contributing to humans dying for pennies. How is that more ethical than paying someone to process meat instead of doing it myself?
If you want to talk about poor living conditions and inhumane slaughtering practices I cant argue against that. You want to debate that all living animals have a right to life I’ll ask why don’t plants have that right. But the OP’s argument is silly and not a solid argument against eating meat.
I have killed and butchered my own chickens and I have gotten pretty good at it but there were a few near the beginning that didn’t go as smoothly as I’d like. If anyone really cares about the suffering of animals they wouldn’t be encouraging amateurs to do it just to prove they are worthy of eating meat.
I think breathing solder fumes is disgusting. I pay for someone else to do it for me and they don’t get paid well. My using electronics is contributing to humans dying for pennies. How is that more ethical than paying someone to process meat instead of doing it myself?
Do you think someone breathing poison for pennies on the dollar is how it should be? Probably not, right? But you can change those. Better pay is possible, as is better working conditions. It’s just the option ain’t really there for meat
You’re talking yourself in circles.
OP’s point is very simple: many people do not confront the unnecessary violence in their habits. Commodities are decontextualized, as you’re attempting to say. To many, animal products just don’t seem like animals and they get very upset when they truly understand those products as being other thinking, feeling things. OP is challenging people to go through that exercise and, hopefully, recognize that they do actually care enough to make minor habitual changes and not kill the animals for entertainment purposes. They just hadn’t confronted it sufficiently.
Personally, I think you and others do understand this. Very few questions, lots of rationalization.
Re: your disgust at soldering, it’s obviously not the same. You’re not morally disgusted or upset by the existence of soldering fumes, which is the confrontation in OP’s post. You’re changing the basic nature of the disgust from discomfort at the idea of killing another thinking being to merely reacting to a smell. I think we all understand that these are very different bases of disgust and that the moral disgust has a component evoking personal moral consistency while the other is a simple physical response.
You did try to find a way to talk about moral consistency in consumption, as all leftists do when confronted with doing something immoral at the personal level that involves consumption or production. No ethical consumption under capitalism, right? No ethical production, either! Individualist. Moralizing. These thought-terminating cliches get trotted out whenever a lefty wants to avoid addressing these kinds of issues and it’s always highly selective. The same person will hate cops or get pissed about someone they know building baby-killing bombs for money or carry out one-person boycotts because they hate one particular company.
Anyways, the kernel of truth in your example is that you know it’s wrong that someone else is underpaid. You haven’t really said that you think the fumes are a problem for the workers doing the work you’re avoiding, so there’s nothing implied to be wrong with that. In bb fact, you didn’t explore what the alternatives would be at all, because this isn’t a serious attempt at counteepoint. But differential exploitation, especially with such vast differences due to imperialism, yes that’s something we agree should be abolished.
If we make your analogy fit despite the other flaws, that would make you someone who thinks the vegans are right but you’re personally not making your own changes.
Does that describe you? The vegans are right about all of this but dang it, you just can’t make the change?
I doubt it.
I don’t really have much to add but just btw, solder flux fumes are toxic, they don’t only have a smell
Not sure what this adds but would like to justadda context onto that bit.
Absolutely! I solder in a well-ventilated area with a fan and a chemical respirator.
Fun fact: I can’t even smell the fumes with that respirator. Half of OP’s example is easily circumvented with basic PPE.
The point has been fully grasped, the point just happens to be very silly.
Then why are all the criticisms premised on basic misunderstanding? Are you saying parent is dishonest?
They aren’t, but if you would like expand upon what you believe is misunderstood instead of just asserting that as a premise you are free to do so, and I may reconsider my position depending on your response.
I’ve personally already replied to several comments if you are interested. Maybe you should go read the thread before assuming I’m merely making assertions.
Everyone should learn how to solder. It gives them more of an appreciation for the equipment they use, and brings them closer to being able to repair or tweak or reinvent their own electronics.
Saying that you should participate directly in the production for yourself, and that this should be normalized, is not the same thing as saying that you should produce everything for yourself on an individual batch level.
deleted by creator
If you have objections around how lithium is produced you probably should take some steps into lessening the demand of it. Systemic change, sure, but thinking “wow this is fucked up, not gonna do the tiniest bit about to help” is psychopathic.
Like if you only buy smartphones when they get actually too old or broken instead of on a 2 year schedule you’re way out ahead. There, look, a freebie
Why does your conception of a connection to production involve the worst abuses of capitalism? Of course it would be the adult consumer doing a stint in the mine.
The complete separation and obscuring of consumption from production is possibly the most insidious part of capitalism, and there are many reasons to have an alternative in which it’s at least possible to take part in making the items and supplies we use.
It’s more like lithium mining if lithium had its own feelings and subjectivities, and lithium mining actually meant raising young lithiums in a concentrationary universe of lithium meat factories and denying lithiums their own freedom and ethical significance in order to feed a grossly excessive, alienating, and generally unnecessary addiction to lithium meat. In other words it’s a shitty comparison
I went to school to be a butcher, originally. I actually know how to break down a whole beef into primals, then, i can passingly get primals broken down into finish cuts. Ive done that in the past several times. Chickens too, from live to its final nugget form.
I agree fully, if youre going to eat it, you should be able to stomach the task.
Im also a vegetarian, so make of that what you will.
I’ve known omnivores that couldn’t field dress a dear they shot… They took it to a processer.
Most dudes i know (im from texas, home of the manly man) will do the bare minimum to prevent spoilage, but nothing beyond that. Hell, most of the guys i know go to ‘caged hunts’. with on site processing. It a hunt on a game ranch. game ranches have fences high enough that Nilgai, mule deer, whitetail and the like cannot get over.
You sleep in a lodge, someone makes your breakfast, feeds you, drives you to a blind or stand on their property, and lets you go. Some provide guns and ammunition.
After you shoot Bambi, they take the carcass, dress it, process it, and you get back some steaks and some 2lb chubbs of ground meat. Then you go back to the lodge, brag about what a stud you are, drink tequila, and let someone else cook dinner for you.
Sounds like a event only the rich can afford.
They typically are. Thousands of dollars per head, then a charge per gun.
Its a way for a man with a very fragile idea of what a man is (whatever the fuck even makes a ‘man’ a man.) to feel manly. Go outside and kill some nature. I unironically see a lot of ‘the west wasnt won on salad’ bumper stickers on Ford pick em up trucks here.
Fragile masculinity is fragile.
Sounds very Texas.
Last year we had to stash a deer in a creek because we still had two mountains tonget over tonget back to camp so we hiked back with packbaskets to bone it out the next day.
Once again, rednecks in upstate new york are smarter and more authentic than the Texans driving a 150k truck that’s never left pavement.
My wife has never shot a deer in her life, but she’s skinned and butchered a few her dad brought down during hunting season. Genuinely kinda terrifying to watch her work.
She does have a cousin that lives out in Victoria and herds cattle as a big part of her family income. They do the whole job, from bottle feeding the calves to BBQing the brisket.
Where im From, beef is big business. I have several friends who are mulit generation farmers and ranchers. Ive helped birth cows, then helped slaughter and process them when the time has come. My former best friend is still a USDA certified mobile beef processor. I was his assistant when i was going thru school.
It sure as fuck isnt for everyone. I guarantee if everyone could only eat what they processed personally, r/steak would not exist.
It sure as fuck isnt for everyone.
No. If I had to process all my meat, I’m reasonably certain I’d throw my back out inside the first month. Nevermind fainting at the sight of all that blood. But also, “if everybody had to do their own X” is a tired hypothetical that ignores why we have all these surpluses to begin with. If I had to drill my own oil wells and smelt my own steel and assemble my own fan motors and stamp my own computer chips and synthesize my own techno beats, I wouldn’t have anything resembling a modern quality of life.
But raise somebody to kill animals from a young age, and it absolutely could be for everyone. This is, again, a basic tenant of FFA and other such organizations. Normalize the brutality of the agrarian economy before you reach the age where it feels weird. Get a ten-year-old’s hands dirty, so that they’ll be mechanically slaughtering animals by the time they turn 20. Inure people to the screams and the sad eyes and the horror.
Then everyone can have the mentality of the cast of Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
if everyone could only eat what they processed personally, r/steak would not exist
It absolutely wood and it would be even worse than it is now. A grotesquery of macabre horror that fans would call you a pussy for failing to enjoy.
Sounds like she knows the amount of work that goes into putting a piece of meat on a plate.
While I’m glad they aren’t owned by Tyson. It’s still exploding a living being for capitol. I’m sure they have a great early life I doubt the amount of shear terror they are put through justifies a life worth living.
Sounds like she knows the amount of work that goes into putting a piece of meat on a plate.
It’s still just kinda horrifying - in my mind, at least - to see the detachment she’s capable of.
I’m sure they have a great early life I doubt the amount of shear terror they are put through justifies a life worth living.
That is the nature of the agricultural industry. You’re one of the sin-eaters of the nation, and - if you’re clever about it - you can live comfortably doing the bloody work of the industry for other people.
At the same time, I don’t think there would be any real benefit if they just put their animals into big cattle cars and shipped them into centrally located urban wet markets. I’m not sure how the patriarch of every household personally handling the bolt gun and the butcher knife gets us to veganism.
I’ll spot one possible benefit. If you had to buy and accept the whole cow, rather than just the choicest cuts, and work your way through the deep freezer before you got another animal, we might cut back on the volume of waste. Its something I’ve kinda wanted to do myself - just go in with a neighbor on a full sized cow every year and that’s my meat allotment until next season - except I don’t have the kind of real estate for a proper deep freeze.
But I could see this as a kind of compromise solution for MUDs. One apartment with ten units gets a ration of X animals that are butchered and preserved on site, rather than individual folks floating out to the grocery store at odd intervals buying random cuts and letting the big boxes dispose of the excess every night.
Or doing big cook-outs around a single animal to feed the proverbial village on festival days rather than piling up pounds of dead flesh for the trash heap in order to guarantee something is always under glass when you decide to drop by.
Anything so that we’re not just creating life so we can throw it away again, so cruelly and casually.
Thanks for the comment that was well worded and thoughtful.
Humans are capable of frightening detachment. Ask any omnivores that has never stepped into a packaging plant.
Your thoughts on disruption are interesting. But I fear it would just make a market for choice cuts which people of means could easily take advantage of.
I find it endearing we share the same goals, limiting cruelty. I hope lab grown meat brings that about. It would make many vegans question their stance and hopefully treat their dogs and cats better.
Humans are capable of frightening detachment. Ask any omnivores that has never stepped into a packaging plant.
At some level, it is necessary. If I had to consider all the ramifications of each of my actions, how could I ever bring myself to poop?
I hope lab grown meat brings that about.
Me too. Honestly, given the state of the agricultural industry (particularly with increased rate of disease and the impact of heat waves on herd stability), I could see large livestock herds as economically non-viable in my lifetime. I guess we solve the problem of animal cruelty by everything just kinda… dying out. Then lab grown meat becomes a delicacy and we just get to live in Demolition Man’s future.
Oh definitely necessary. Otherwise we’d all die of trama.
Unfortunately it has to happen that way because so many don’t want to confront the cruelity their diet causes. But I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom from that point I think we can learn to reappreciate our animal friends. Maybe even uplift them to our understanding.
I mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, I got a friend of mine that went hunting with me to go vegetarian after getting to the dressing part. I don’t think most people can handle seeing it up close
Lmao your pfp
There are schools specifically for butchers?
breaking a carcass down into the relevant muscle groups is not a trivial task
I’d imagine it’s a little similar to being a massage therapist or osteopath or something, tons of anatomical knowledge (but only muscle and bone)
I used to live on a homestead where we’d occasionally kill and butcher chickens after giving them a long happy life of running free on a large property - basically the “happy farm” every carnist likes to pretend they buy their meat from.
It was still wrong and I think back on that time really negatively - the killing at least. I loved taking care of those little dinosaurs and watching them run around while I smoked on the front porch. They should have just been pets.
Family has kept birds for years that are essentially pets - it’s funny how chickens are written off as these stupid meat beasts when they each have individual personalities and quirks. Like, even the farm animals people feel less guilty about eating because they’re “less intelligent” are just individual lil guys doing their own thing.
Had some chicken pals for a while when living on a farm. No one at meat there and we did move the eggs into a section of the barn so there wouldn’t be egg bits making the place gross.
May I ask did you take a liking to any of them? Like gained a special connection with one that you think about every once in a while.
Every one that I got to name. We had 40 chickens and 3 ducks so there was a lot to keep in mind, but I got to name one of the ducks and a few of the chickens, and they were my favorites. Especially the ones I named after commies - my housemates never knew why we had a duck named Tito, or that Emma’s and Rosa’s full names were actually Emma Goldhen and Rosa Cluxemburg.
But they were all pretty special, and even the ones I didn’t form a long-lasting emotional bond deserved better than being eaten.
“Emma Goldhen and Rosa Cluxemburg”
You’re my hero.
Look, I don’t think stomaching slaughtering animals should allow you to eat meat.
It’s more honest at least.
I agree, but I think practically it works. People who are totally comfortable with slaughter probably aren’t generally going to go vegan, but the vast majority of people would be traumatized by the experience. So it’s not very useful like philosophically or whatever, but in most cases it makes sense for real people. I’m not making any sense.
And in general, even though I’m vegan, I just have no faith that talking to people about it will actually produce a better world or whatever, so idk why I’m even weighing in. I think revolution is more likely than animal liberation.
Hard to stop a guy that doesn’t buy it at Safeway though
you should change your diet either way tbh
I can excuse institutional ecocide and mass murder, but I draw the line at hypocrisy
I don’t really hunt or farm(don’t live where that’s an option) but I have butchered and ate a grouse that flew into my window and died one time. Free food is free food.
Really living up to the cat part of your name
Thanks. Sometimes you need to be goblin mode
flying into your window and dying is probably as good as you’re gonna get for consent
Isn’t there people who say roadkill is technically ok by ethical veganism? Think I’ve heard some people say that
yeah it gets a little loose around the edges. some people will dumpster-dive animal products although if you stop eating meats long enough you lose some ability to digest it properly so “if you don’t eat this i’m throwing it away” isn’t getting one over on anybody. similarly some people are cool with heirloom animal products others think wearing grandpa’s wool coat promotes the modern wool industry or normalizes whatever.
i think the term is “freegan” for the ones who’ll partake as long as they aren’t participating in the economy? i’m sure there’s a dozen sub-tendencies like every other left ideology.
I could see the argument here but considering the ubiquity of cars that gets you into car-hunting pretty fast I feel
car hunting? there is no car hunting, it’s extremely difficult & dangerous to go out of your way on a road in an attempt to hit an animal.
driving around all day until i “accidentally” hit a deer and then call the DNR out to tag it is my favorite way to hunt.
like i’ll believe there are a few idiots that try to do this (surely while drinking) but it’s still more or less random whether a deer will ever get in the road at the appropriate time/angle. and it’s super dangerous
I was a butcher for nine years so it doesn’t bother me to break down a dead body.
What always bothered me was killing lobsters from the tank. Seeing the life leave their body was rough.
Uncritical support for this post.
If you can’t butcher your own meat, you’re using the disconnect of letting someone else handle that trauma for you to allow yourself to be complicit in the murder of a being.
Kill it and cut it yourself, or don’t fucking eat it.
I’ve butchered birds before and I’ve butchered deer before.
I’d butcher them live in my house if it was cheaper to buy them live. All my poultry is bought as the whole dead bird and cut on my countertop to save money.
I think they’re talking about people who would never ever do it cause it’s icky, but will eat meat. I don’t think OP’s expectation is that people would butcher their own meat in all circumstances
deleted by creator
As a vegan I can respect people that actually take the time to do this. That being said, I’d hate if someone pulled me underwater and ate me.
deleted by creator
I mean that all tracks. I’ve been a vegan long enough to know some people just don’t have the means. But when people tell me vegan food is too expensive I generally laugh in their face. I haven’t hunted since my teens. At this point I just go into the woods with a firearm just to justify the ownership.
As a vegan I can respect people that actually take the time to do this
I don’t. It doesn’t matter how you murder them, you’re still needlessly murdering them.
If you’re equating a death in a factory farm to the death of a hunter, your goal isn’t to limit suffering.
You keep telling yourself that as you munch down on flesh you ghoul, I’m sure it helps with the guilt somewhat
Stopping hunters absolutely also limits suffering
sigh I’ve been a vegan since I left high school, when my parents couldn’t control my diet.
Vegans that make comments like this are why people hate us. This is coming from a dude that ran around London with a bucket of red paint looking for people wearing fur.
A hunter that kills a deer once a season isn’t buying beef from a packaging plant and not paying a capitalist to torture cows that may get wasted.
You or me aren’t going to stop humans from eating meat. That’s literally the key to climate change. But we can limit the suffering by not supporting factory farms.
Don’t left perfection be the enemy of progress.
I have no interest in being nice to carnists to be honest; in fact I disagree that it’s why “people hate us”. They hate us because they know they’re wrong, and everytime you eat with them they’re reminded of it.
Moreover, I believe being confrontational (which I was above when I assumed you weren’t vegan) actually works better than trying to be nice. Humiliating them publicly means they’ll immediately react badly, all dialogue will quickly be closed, but they’ll be embarrassed and IMO that leads to more reflection on that later on - in other words: for that topic, bullying works. I might be wrong, but I genuinely achieved better success this way.
Don’t left perfection be the enemy of progress.
I won’t pretend killing creatures for fun is acceptable in any way, sorry.
A hunter that kills a deer once a season isn’t buying beef from a packaging plant
Yes they are. I know because my dad used to bag a deer every year. We still ate factory farmed meat, because fun fact, a single deer carcass is actually not big enough to feed a family for an entire year.
People hate us (us vegans, I mean) not because we’re rude on the internet, but because we’re living proof that humans don’t have to eat dead animals. We’re proof that it’s possible, easy even, to avoid paying for that suffering, and carnists hate that reminder.
